No One Knows What You Are Going Through
Total transcript of ABC News' George Stephanopoulos' interview with President Joe Biden
Stephanopoulos spoke to Biden in an exclusive interview Wed.
Read the full transcript of President Joe Biden'southward sectional interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos on Midweek.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, thanks for doing this.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thanks for doin' it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's go correct to it. Back in July, you said a Taliban takeover was highly unlikely. Was the intelligence wrong, or did y'all downplay information technology?
BIDEN: I think -- at that place was no consensus. If you go back and await at the intelligence reports, they said that it's more probable to be sometime past the end of the yr. The idea that the tal -- and so it goes further on, even as late every bit August. I call up you're gonna meet -- the Chairman of the Articulation Chiefs of Staff and others speaking almost this later on today.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you lot didn't put a timeline on it when you said it was highly unlikely. You but said apartment out, "It'southward highly unlikely the Taliban would take over."
BIDEN: Yeah. Well, the question was whether or not it w-- the idea that the Taliban would take over was premised on the notion that the -- that somehow, the 300,000 troops we had trained and equipped was gonna just collapse, they were gonna give up. I don't think anybody anticipated that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Just y'all know that Senator McConnell, others say this was non merely predictable, information technology was predicted, including by him, based on intelligence briefings he was getting.
BIDEN: What -- what did he say was predicted?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator McConnell said it was predictable that the Taliban was gonna take over.
BIDEN: Well, past the end of the twelvemonth, I said that'due south that was -- that was a real possibility. Just no one said it was gonna accept over and then when it was bein' asked.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So when you look at what'south happened over the last week, was information technology a failure of intelligence, planning, execution or judgment?
BIDEN: Look, I don't think it was a fa-- look, it was a elementary choice, George. When the-- when the Taliban -- let me back -- put it another way. When you had the government of Afghanistan, the leader of that government get in a plane and taking off and going to another country, when you saw the significant collapse of the ta-- of the-- Afghan troops we had trained -- up to 300,000 of them just leaving their equipment and taking off, that was -- yous know, I'm not-- this -- that -- that'due south what happened.
That's simply what happened. Then the question was in the beginning the-- the threshold question was, do we commit to leave within the timeframe we've set? Nosotros extended it to September 1st. Or do nosotros put significantly more than troops in? I hear people say, "Well, you lot had two,500 folks in there and nothin' was happening. You know, in that location wasn't any war."
Just approximate what? The fact was that the reason it wasn't happening is the concluding president negotiated a year earlier that he'd exist out past May 1st and that-- in return, there'd be no attack on American forces. That's what was done. That's why nothing was happening. Only the thought if I had said -- I had a unproblematic choice. If I had said, "We're gonna stay," and so we'd better set up to put a whole hell of a lot more than troops in --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But your height armed services advisors warned against withdrawing on this timeline. They wanted yous to keep about 2,500 troops.
BIDEN: No, they didn't. It was separate. Tha-- that wasn't true. That wasn't truthful.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They didn't tell you that they wanted troops to stay?
BIDEN: No. Not at -- non in terms of whether we were going to go out in a timeframe all troops. They didn't argue against that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then no one told -- your military advisors did not tell you, "No, we should but go on 2,500 troops. Information technology's been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. Nosotros can continue to do that"?
BIDEN: No. No one said that to me that I can recall. Wait, George, the reason why it'due south been stable for a year is considering the last president said, "Nosotros're leaving. And hither's the bargain I wanna brand with you, Taliban. We're agreeing to leave if you agree not to attack the states between now and the fourth dimension we get out on May the 1st."
I got into role, George. Less than ii months after I elected to office, I was sworn in, of a sudden, I have a May 1 borderline. I accept a May 1 deadline. I got one of two choices. Do I say we're staying? And exercise you recall we would not accept to put a hell of a lot more than troops? B-- you know, we had hundreds-- we had tens of thousands of troops there before. Tens of thousands.
Do you think we woulda -- that we would've but said, "No problem. Don't worry nigh it, we're not gonna attack anybody. Nosotros're okay"? In the meantime, the Taliban was takin' territory all throughout the country in the north and down in the s, in the Pasthtun area.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So would you take withdrawn troops like this even if President Trump had non made that deal with the Taliban?
BIDEN: I would've tried to figure out how to withdraw those troops, yes, because look, George. At that place is no good time to go out Afghanistan. Fifteen years ago would've been a trouble, 15 years from now. The basic selection is am I gonna transport your sons and your daughters to state of war in Afghanistan in perpetuity?
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's--
BIDEN: No one tin can name for me a fourth dimension when this would terminate. And what-- wha-- wha-- what-- what constitutes defeat of the Taliban? What constitutes defeat? Would we take left then? Let's say they surrender similar earlier. OK. Do we exit so? Do you think anybody-- the aforementioned people who recollect we should stay would've said, "No, skilful time to get"? We spent over $1 trillion, George, 20 years. There was no good time to leave.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Merely if at that place's no good time, if y'all know y'all're gonna have to leave somewhen, why not have th-- everything in place to make sure Americans could get out, to brand sure our Afghan allies become out, so we don't have these chaotic scenes in Kabul?
BIDEN: Number ane, as yous know, the intelligence community did not say back in June or July that, in fact, this was gonna collapse similar it did. Number 1.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They idea the Taliban would take over, but non this quickly?
BIDEN: Just not this quickly. Not even close. We had already issued several thousand passports to the-- the SIVs, the people-- the-- the-- the translators when I came into office before we had negotiated getting out at the cease of s-- August.
Secondly, we're in a position where what we did was took precautions. That'southward why I authorized that there be 6,000 American troops to menstruum in to accommodate this exit, number one. And number two, provided all that aircraft in the Gulf to get people out. Nosotros pre-positioned all that, anticipated that. Now, granted, it took two days to take command of the airport. Nosotros accept control of the aerodrome now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Notwithstanding a lotta pandemonium outside the airport.
BIDEN: Oh, there is. Only, look, b-- simply no one'due south being killed correct now, God forgive me if I'yard incorrect well-nigh that, but no one's being killed right now. People are-- nosotros got i,000-somewhat, ane,200 out, yesterday, a couple k today. And it's increasing. We're gonna go those people out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Only we've all seen the pictures. We've seen those hundreds of people packed into a C-17. You lot've seen Afghans falling--
BIDEN: That was four days agone, five days ago.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you beginning saw those pictures?
BIDEN: What I thought was we ha-- we have to gain command of this. Nosotros accept to move this more chop-chop. We take to move in a manner in which nosotros can accept command of that airport. And we did.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I-- I think a lot of-- a lot of Americans, and a l-- fifty-fifty a lot of veterans who served in Afghanistan agree with you on the big, strategic picture. They believe we had to go out. But I wonder how y'all respond to an Ground forces Special Forces officeholder, Javier McKay (PH). He did seven tours. He was shot twice. He agrees with you. He says, "We have to cut our losses in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan." But he adds, "I just wish we could've left with accolade."
BIDEN: Look, that's like askin' my deceased son Beau, who spent six months in Kosovo and a yr in Republic of iraq as a Navy captain and and then major-- I hateful, as an Ground forces major. And, you know, I'one thousand sure h-- he had regrets comin' out of Afganista-- I hateful, out of Iraq.
He had regrets to what'south-- how-- how it'due south going. But the idea-- what's the alternative? The alternative is why are nosotros staying in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan? Why are we at that place? Don't yous think that the one-- y'all know who's most disappointed in us getting out? Russian federation and China. They'd love us to proceed to take to--
STEPHANOPOULOS: And then you don't recall this could've been handled, this exit could've been handled better in any mode? No mistakes?
BIDEN: No. I-- I don't think it could've been handled in a way that there-- we-- we're gonna become back in hindsight and wait, but the thought that somehow there's a way to accept gotten out without anarchy ensuing, I don't know how that happens. I don't know how that happened.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And then for y'all, that was always priced into the decision?
BIDEN: Yes. Now, exactly what happened-- is non priced in. Merely I knew that they're gonna have an enormous, enorm-- look, i of the things we didn't know is what the Taliban would do in terms of trying to keep people from getting out, what they would do.What are they doing at present? They're cooperating, letting American citizens get out, American personnel get out, embassies exit, et cetera. Just they're having-- we're having some more than difficulty in having those who helped us when we were in in that location--
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we don't really know what's happening outside of Kabul.
BIDEN: Pardon me?
STEPHANOPOULOS: We don't really know what's happening exterior of Kabul.
BIDEN: Well-- nosotros practise know generically and in some specificity what'due south happening outside of Kabul. We don't know it in cracking detail. But we practise know. And estimate what? The Taliban knows if they accept on American citizens or American military, nosotros volition strike them back like hell won't take it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: All troops are supposed to be out by August 31st. Fifty-fifty if Americans and our Afghan allies are yet trying to become out, they're gonna leave?
BIDEN: We're gonna exercise everything in our power to get all Americans out and our allies out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Does that mean troops volition stay beyond Baronial 31st if necessary?
BIDEN: It depends on where we are and whether we can become-- ramp these numbers upward to 5,000 to 7,000 a day coming out. If that's the case, we'll be-- they'll all be out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: 'Cause we've got, like, 10,000 to 15,000 Americans in the state right now, correct? And are yous committed to making sure that the troops stay until every American who wants to be out--
BIDEN: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- is out?
BIDEN: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about our Afghan allies? We accept about eighty,000 people--
BIDEN: Well, that'southward not the southward--
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that likewise high?
BIDEN: That's too loftier.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How many--
BIDEN: The estimate we're giving is somewhere between 50,000 and 65,000 folks total, counting their families.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Does the commitment hold for them as well?
BIDEN: The commitment holds to get everyone out that, in fact, we tin leave and everyone that should come out. And that's the objective. That's what we're doing now, that'south the path we're on. And I recollect nosotros'll get there.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So Americans should understand that troops might accept to be at that place beyond August 31st?
BIDEN: No. Americans should empathize that we're gonna try to get it washed before August 31st.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Simply if we don't, the troops will stay--
BIDEN: If -- if we don't, nosotros'll make up one's mind at the time who's left.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And?
BIDEN: And if you're American force -- if there'south American citizens left, we're gonna stay to get them all out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You talked about our adversaries, China and Russian federation. You lot already encounter China telling Taiwan, "See? You tin can't count on the Americans." (Express mirth)
BIDEN: Sh-- why wouldn't Red china say that? Wait, George, the thought that w-- in that location's a fundamental difference betwixt-- between Taiwan, Due south Korea, NATO. We are in a situation where they are in-- entities we've fabricated agreements with based on not a civil war they're having on that isle or in South Korea, but on an agreement where they accept a unity government that, in fact, is trying to keep bad guys from doin' bad things to them.
We take made-- kept every commitment. Nosotros made a sacred commitment to Commodity Five that if in fact anyone were to invade or have action against our NATO allies, we would respond. Aforementioned with Nippon, same with Republic of korea, same with-- Taiwan. It's not even comparable to talk nearly that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Aye, but those--
BIDEN: It's not comparable to t--
STEPHANOPOULOS: --who say, "Expect, America cannot be trusted now, America does not keep its promises--"
BIDEN: Who-- who's gonna say that? Look, before I fabricated this decision, I met with all our allies, our NATO allies in Europe. They agreed. We should be getting out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did they have a option?
BIDEN: Sure, they had a choice. Look, the one thing I promise yous in individual, NATO allies are not placidity. You lot remember from your old days. They're not gonna be quiet. And so-- and by the manner, you know, what we're gonna be doing is nosotros're gonna be putting together a grouping of the K-7, the folks that nosotros work with the most-- to-- I was on the phone with-- with Angela Merkel today. I was on the telephone with the British prime number minister. I'one thousand gonna be talking to Macron in French republic to make sure we have a coherent view of how we're gonna deal from this point on.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What happens now in Afghanistan? Exercise you lot believe the Taliban have inverse?
BIDEN: No. I remember-- let me put it this way. I think they're going through sort of an existential crisis about do they want to be recognized by the international community every bit being a legitimate authorities. I'thou not certain they exercise. But await, they have--
STEPHANOPOULOS: They care nigh their behavior more than?
BIDEN: Well, they do. Just they too care most whether they take nutrient to eat, whether they have an income that they can provide for their f-- that they can make any money and run an economy. They intendance virtually whether or not they can concord together the society that they in fact say they care then much well-nigh.
I'm not counting on whatever of that. I'm not cou-- but that is part of what I think is going on correct now in terms of I-- I'1000 not sure I would've predicted, George, nor would you or anyone else, that when nosotros decided to leave, that they'd provide safety passage for Americans to get out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Across Americans, what do we owe the Afghans who are left behind, particularly Afghan women who are facing the prospect of subjugation once again?
BIDEN: As many as we can get out, we should. For example, I had a meeting today for a couple hours in the Situation Room but beneath hither. There are Afghan women outside the gate. I told 'em, "Get 'em on the planes. Get them out. Become them out. Become their families out if you can."
But hither's the bargain, George. The idea that we're able to deal with the rights of women around the globe past military machine force is not rational. Non rational. Await what's happened to the Uighurs in western China. Look what's happening in other parts of the earth.
Look what's happenin' in, you know, in-- in the Congo. I mean, there are a lotta places where women are existence subjugated. The way to deal with that is non with a armed forces invasion. The way to deal with that is putting economic, diplomatic, and national pre-- international force per unit area on them to change their behavior.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about the threat to the United states? Most intelligence assay has predicted that Al Qaeda would come dorsum 18 to 24 months after a withdrawal of American troops. Is that analysis now being revised? Could information technology exist sooner?
BIDEN: It could exist. Only George, look, hither'due south the deal. Al Qaeda, ISIS, they metastasize. In that location's a significantly greater threat to the United States from Syria. There's a significantly greater threat from East Africa. In that location'south significant greater threat to other places in the world than it is from the mountains of Afghanistan. And we have maintained the ability to have an over-the-horizon capability to take them out. We're-- we don't have military in Syria to brand certain that we're gonna be protected--
STEPHANOPOULOS: And yous're confident we're gonna have that in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan?
BIDEN: Yeah. I'grand confident nosotros're gonna take the overriding capability, yes. Wait, George, information technology's like request me, you know, am I confident that people are gonna act even remotely rationally. Here'southward the bargain. The bargain is the threat from Al Qaeda and their acquaintance organizations is greater in other parts of the globe to the Us than information technology is from Afghanistan.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And th-- that tells you lot that yous're-- it's safe to leave?
BIDEN: No. That tells me that-- my dad used to have an expression, George. If everything'south equally important to yous, aught'south important to you. We should be focusing on where the threat is the greatest. And the threat-- the idea-- nosotros can keep to spend $ane trillion and have tens of thousands of American forces in Afghanistan when we take what's going on around the world, in the Heart E and Due north Africa and w-- I mean, alibi me-- yeah, North Africa and Western Africa. The idea nosotros can practise that and ignore those-- those looming issues, growing problems, is not-- not rational.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Final question on this. You know, in a couple weeks, we're all gonna commemorate the 20th anniversary of 9/11. The Taliban are gonna be ruling Transitional islamic state of afghanistan, merely l-- like they were when our country was attacked. How do yous explain that to the American people?
BIDEN: Non true. It'south not truthful. They're not gonna await just like they were we were attacked. In that location was a guy named Osama bin Laden that was still live and well. They were organized in a big way, that they had pregnant help from arou-- from other parts of the globe.
We went there for 2 reasons, George. Ii reasons. Ane, to get Bin Laden, and two, to wipe out every bit best we could, and we did, the Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Nosotros did it. Then what happened? Began to morph into the notion that, instead of having a counterterrorism capability to have small forces there in-- or in the region to be able to accept on Al Qaeda if it tried to reconstitute, nosotros decided to engage in nation edifice. In nation edifice. That never fabricated whatever sense to me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like you think we shoulda gotten out a long time ago--
BIDEN: We should've.
STEPHANOPOULOS: --and-- and accept the idea that it was gonna be messy no matter what.
BIDEN: Well, past the-- what would be messy?
STEPHANOPOULOS: The exit--
BIDEN: If we had gotten out a long time ago-- getting out would exist messy no thing when it occurred. I ask you lot, you lot want me to stay, you want u.s. to stay and send your kids back to Transitional islamic state of afghanistan? How about it? Are you thou-- if yous had a son or daughter, would you send them in Afghanistan now? Or later?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Would be hard, but a lot of families accept done it.
BIDEN: They've done it considering, in fact, in that location was a circumstance that was different when we started. Nosotros were there for two reasons, George. And we accomplished both ten years ago. Nosotros got Osama bin Laden. As I said and got criticized for saying at the time, we're gonna follow him to the gates of hell. Hell, we did--
STEPHANOPOULOS: How will history judge the United States' feel in Afghanistan?
BIDEN: One that we overextended what nosotros needed to practise to bargain with our national involvement. That'southward like my sayin' they-- they're-- they-- they b-- b-- the border of Tajikistan-- and-- other-- what-- does information technology matter? Are we gonna become to war considering of what'due south goin' on in Tajikistan? What practice you lot retrieve?
Tell me what-- where in that isolated country that has never, never, never in all of history been united, all the style back to Alexander the Swell, straight through the British Empire and the Russians, what is the thought? Are we gonna s-- continue to lose thousands of Americans to injury and death to attempt to unite that state? What do y'all think? I recall not.
I think the American people are with me. And when you unite that land, what do you lot have? They're surrounded past Russian federation in the north or the Stans in the due north. Yous have-- to the west, they have Iran. To the due south, they take Pakistan, who's supporting them. And to the-- and-- really, the e, they have Pakistan and China. Tell me. Tell me. Is that worth our national interest to keep to spend some other $one trillion and lose thousands more than American lives? For what?
STEPHANOPOULOS: I know we're outta fourth dimension. I have 2 quick questions on COVID. I know you're gonna brand-- exist makin' an declaration on booster shots today. Have y'all and the outset lady gotten your booster shots all the same?
BIDEN: We're gonna become the booster shots. And-- it's somethin' that I retrieve-- you know, because nosotros g-- w-- we got our shots all the style back in I recollect December. So information technology'southward-- it's-- it's past time. So the thought (Racket) that the recommendation-- that'south my wife calling. (LAUGH) No. (LAUGH) But all kiddin' aside, yes, nosotros will get the booster shots.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And-- and finally-- are you comfortable with Americans getting a third shot when so many millions effectually the world oasis't had their first?
BIDEN: Absolutely because we're providing more to the residuum of the world than all the rest of the world combined. We got enough for everybody American, plus before this year is-- earlier nosotros become to the centre of next year, we're gonna provide a half a billion shots to the rest of the world. We're keepin' our part of the bargain. Nosotros're doin' more than than anybody.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, cheers for your time.
BIDEN: Cheers.
Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-interview-president/story?id=79535643
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